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I was reading a chat at ESPN last week that contained the following exchange:
Otis (Mt Airy, NC)
In his blog Buster compared the HOF credentials of Edgar Martinez to those of Don Mattingly. While I'm not sure either should be in, isn't that a slap at the value of Mattingly's glove? If the Hall welcomed the best defenders at their positions in the decade, Mattinly would get in.
Jim Callis
I'd submit that putting a first baseman in the Hall of Fame for his glove would be a travesty. Buster's point, and I agree, is that both were very good hitters whose body of work falls short of the Hall.
I contend that Jim was wrong on every count (though I'll give him total slack on the first one since it was largely Otis' point, and will note that comments made during a chat can't always be expected to be indepth and 100% accurate).
(1) Theoratically, putting a first-baseman in the HOF for his glove wouldn’t be a travesty, assuming his glove really was that good and he hit enough otherwise. If you have some sort of magical +25 run per season defender at first, and he plays for a long time and is at least pretty good offensively then sure you can put him in. It doesn’t matter which side of the ball the runs come from – it’s just harder to get there as a first-baseman who doesn’t swing a mean stick. Now, putting him in just because he’s the best defender at his position for a given time period is crazy. The general point stands though.
(2) Both were very good hitters in the sense that for some period of time both hit very well. To lump them in together overall does Edgar a huge disservice.
Donnie Baseball: .307/.358/.471 career hitter, 222 HR, 127 OPS+, career high OBP of .394
Edgar: .312/.418/.515 career hitter (OBP is 22nd highest of all-time - one spot ahead of Stan Musial), 309 HR, 147 OPS+, career low OBP (min 400 PA) of .397
Mattingly was a good hitter; Edgar was a great hitter. Different time periods, but a 60 point edge in OBP? That’s pretty significant. And another 34 points of SLG on top of that.
Martinez was twice the hitter Mattingly was: looking at Rally’s Historical Wins Above Replacement Database, Edgar was at 559 batting runs above average for his career – or 39 runs per 600 PA – and Mattingly was at 240 batting runs (19 per 600 PA). Even when you add in baserunning, grounding into double plays, and reaching on errors – areas in which Edgar trailed – he still has a huge edge, +37 runs per 600 PA to (still) +19 runs per 600 PA.
As an offensive force, there really is no comparison.
Even when Mattingley was great offensively early in his career - posting seasons of 47, 48, 52, and 41 runs above average with the bat – that still was well shy of Edgar’s peak prowess (he had 5 years with the bat at were as good as Mattingly’s best; 78, 63, 62, 57, 52.)
(3) Edgar probably does belong in the Hall of Fame. Mattingley probably doesn’t.. Back to the WAR database:
Mattingly: 39.8 WAR
Total Zone has him as a good but not great fielder (about 2.5 runs better than average per season, including double plays and outfield throwing). That really hurts his case, since the positional adjustment for being a first-baseman is severe. Even if you think he was a +10 defender every year, it still only gets him to about 50 WAR – that’s Fred McGriff territory (50.5). At best – at best! – he’s a borderline candidate.
Edgar: 67.2 WAR
Interestingly, though Martinez was a DH later in his career (and that’s what he’s known as), since he came up as a third-baseman his average positional adjustment (per 600 PA) isn’t much harsher than Mattingly’s; -9.8 runs to -9.2 runs. Looks like he wasn’t half bad at the hot corner either, with 16 runs above average with the glove for his career..
For comparison - based on career WAR - Mattingly is between Gil McDonald and Boog Powell, and below Carlos Delgado, Mike Cameron, Lance Berkman, Miguel Tejada, JR Drew, Devon White, Chuck Knoblauch, Julio Franco, Steve Finley, and even Jim Rice (who is in the Tejada/Drew area).
Edgar is surrounded by Tony Gwynn (HOFamer), Jesse Burkett (HOFamer), Bobby Grich, Carlton Fisk (HOFamer), Duke Snider (HOFamer) - Martinez here - Larry Walker, Alan Trammell, and Eddie Murray (HOFamer).
Of the position players ahead of Edgar in career WAR, only the following ones aren’t in the Hall and are eligible: Bill Dahlen, Lou Whitaker, and Bobby Grich, That’s it. Jeff Bagwell will be an interesting case (79.9 WAR), but everyone else who isn’t eligible yet but will be should get in (Bonds, A-Rod, Griffey, Frank Thomas, Chipper Jones, Barry Larkin).
I’m not going to make the full case for Edgar’s enshrinement, but I will say that if you’re a medium-to-big Hall person then he probably deserves to get in. I don't really like his chances on the first ballot though.
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I hope he gets in. He was one of the best pure hitters of that era.