Search

Latest Forum Posts

Random Crap Forum
zsanders 7.11.2009 22:21
Baseball Discussion Forum
zsanders 7.11.2009 22:20
More...
Could the Mariners Compete in 2010?
Written by Zach Sanders   
Thursday, 19 November 2009 11:50

Disclaimer: I am not insinuating that any of the moves mentioned in this article will happen. I have no inside knowledge, and I don't want to lay out odds of these moves being made. The point of this article is to look at things the Mariners have the means (and are rumored) to do to make a push next season.

After a surprise above .500 finish in 2009, the Seattle Mariners seem to be in good hands now that the devil himself Bill Bavasi is gone and Jack Z is sitting behind the desk. With truckloads of money coming off the payroll this offseason, the Mariners are rumored to be big players in the free agent market. It's really difficult to tell if they will be, because we've only seen how Jack Z operates on a very limited budget.

Before seeing who they could sign, we need to find out exactly how much money they have to work with. Luckily, that work has been done for us by the good folks at Lookout Landing. After factoring in all of the arbitration raises that will be due, Jeff concluded that the M's will have ~$68 million locked up next year. In '09, their payroll came in at $99MM, but they have exceeded the $100MM mark before (remember the 100/100 club?). For argument's sake, let's say Jack can convince the owner to raise the payroll to $105MM for next year, which isn't out of the question in my mind and according to other sources out there. With that in mind, Seattle has $37 million to spend. Now, onto the good stuff.

For their first move of the offseason, the M's could sign John Lackey. A Felix/Lackey combo is great, and is better than anything else they can trot out to the mound. While he is getting to the top of the hill (he may even be over it), he is still a great pitcher who will be able to find ways to get the job done. He is asking for a lot, but the market just isn't there and will drive his price down. Contract: 4 years, $50 million. Budget left: $24.5MM.

Next, they go after a left fielder, signing Jason Bay to a deal. Bay is from Washington state, so the location factor comes into play. Like Lackey, he has a big price, but it looks like it will be driven down by the market. Contract: 3 years, $42 million. Budget left: $10.5MM.

Also on the agenda for the Mariners is bringing back Russell Branyan. He declined a one-year deal with an option already, so it's going to take a two-year deal to get the job done. It looks like he will be back, but the price is unknown. I will have to use my best judgement with this one. Contract: 2 years, $12 million. Budget left: $4.5MM.

The only real hole to be filled is the DH spot, but if push comes to shove Griffey can play there. However, let's spend that money! Erik Hinske (1 yr, $2MM) hasn't been rumored but makes sense with the kind of player Jack Z signs. And, Mike Redmond (1 yr, $1MM), who has been talked about as the possible new backup catcher. This leaves us some wiggle room to play with, should contracts be a bit more than expected. After all of these moves, here is what the roster would look like (starters listed first):

C - Adam Moore, Redmond
1B - Branyan, Hinske
2B - Jose Lopez
3B - Matt Tuiaosopo, Jack Hannahan
SS - Jack Wilson. Hannahan 
LF - Jason Bay, Hinske
CF - Franklin Gutierrez
RF - Ichiro, Hinske
DH - Hinske, Griffey
UTIL - Bill Hall

SP - Felix, Lackey, Ryan Rowland-Smith, Brandon Morrow, Ian Snell
RP - David Aardsma, Mark Lowe, Shawn Kelley, Doug Fister, Jason Vargas, Chris Jakubauskas, Carlos Silva

By my count, that's 25 players. Rob Johnson, Michael Saunders, Ryan Langerhans and Sean White would be left to compete for roster spots, but would be ready to come in at any time if injuries occurred.

Is this a championship team? Probably not, but you never know. The rotation is solid, the bullpen is good to go, and the lineup is improved without killing the defense (except LF). This team is likely to win the AL West, but maybe I'm just biased. In the playoffs, they have the rotation that could help lead them through, but not the talent to get past the Yankees.

If the Mariners can get Bay, Lackey and Branyan at the prices listed, they can compete, or at least make the playoffs in 2010. Of course, I'm biased here, but I believe the prices set make sense and will be the eventual numbers. Chances are, they will not be able to get Bay, but could spend the money on Hideki Matsui and allow Hinske to start in left. The roster flexibility will suffer, but the team would still be good when healthy.

This piece was written as per a request by reader and twitter follower Aaron T. I am always open to suggestions or requests for analysis, as it makes it so I don't have to think of ideas.

Lackey image from Ghost of Moonlight Graham, and Bay image from A Believer's Blog.



Digg! Reddit! Facebook! Technorati! StumbleUpon! BallHype: hype it up!
Comments (12)Add Comment
Re: Jason Bay
written by Aaron T., November 19, 2009
Nice article, its hard to figure out the money for Jason Bay especially now that he has rejected Boston's offer, I wonder if he is going to push for teixeira money, but for less years.
...
written by padmanjones, November 19, 2009
The division title would be a lock if they traded for Halladay...

Re: Bay
written by Zach Sanders, November 19, 2009
He can ask for Teix money all he wants, but that doesn't mean he is going to get it. He will quickly realize the offer the Red Sox offered him was above his market value.
2010 Mariners
written by Lonnie of Mariner Central, November 20, 2009
While upgrading the offense with Bay is nice, I really don't think that Zduriencik is looking that way. I believe/hope/pray that doing something to strengthen the starting rotation is his taget. I want to see a rotation of Felix/Lackey/Edwin Jackson/RR-S/Snell. THAT is a devestating rotation.

There would still be enough funds to resign Branyan, but more importantly there would be enough funds leftover to sign Felix to a long-term deal. THAT is priority #1 in my book.

Lonnie
Randy
written by Randall, November 20, 2009
Well...that's 25 players, and you didn't give up anything...BUT - Bay is TERRIBLE in the OF, Hinske cannot play the field anywhere but 1B without killing himself, is a career ~.220 hitter vs LHP and Langerhans is out of options. Fister, Vargas, Jakubauskus and Silva are very redundant (though likely 3 of them will be with the club) and none of them really a "reliever", I think Branyan even knows now that Branyan isn't getting a 2 year deal, etc.

By the way, check out mlbcontracts.blogspot.com for contract info (through 2014).
...
written by 200tang, November 20, 2009
It's a decent team, but I don't think Bay signs here and if he does he'll surely be the DH, not starting LF. Jack Z cares too much about defense to let him go out there everyday.

I also think signing Felix to an extension is first priority and takes away 6-10M from the budget.
Jason Bay?
written by Doc Milo, November 20, 2009
Here is Hittracker.com's picture of Bay's hr's in 2009. Looking at his pattern, he's a worse hitter than Jose Lopez at Safeco in 2010. No thank.
http://www.hittrackeronline.co...catter.jpg
Re: Bay/Lackey
written by Erik E, November 20, 2009
Spending money for the sake of spending it isn't going to get this team to the playoffs. Bay is simply not a good fit for this club. He's a defensive liability (the M's brass is a huge proponent of advanced defensive metrics, so I'm sure they're aware of this). Safeco Field is also a terrible fit for a RH power hitter. Given that his best fit for this club will be at DH, the team will be much better off resisting the urge to spend resources on a player whose true value to the team far outweighs his likely price tag. Signing Bay doesn't fill a need for Seattle because the team already has Michael Saunders and Dustin Ackley in-house who they want to see develop. A much better use of the funds allocated to signing Bay would be re-signing Adrian Beltre, where the team's fallback options are a potential blackhole right now.

Signing Lackey would help the team, but so would signing Harden, who, from a contract standpoint, will be FAR less risky. For the $15m that the author has allocated to Lackey, the team could sign Harden AND Bedard/Sheets. That is a much more efficient allocation of resources with less risk (considering their anticipated contract lengths will most likely be of a shorter duration)

For the M's to make the playoffs, they need to be wise with their investments and resist the urge to splurge on the top names. The market is littered with players at discounted prices relative to their potential value. Right now, Bay and Lackey represent two of the few names who expect to be overpriced. This team is almost there, but the fact remains that the they're building for both the future and the present. Winning now with a complete disregard for financial flexibility in the future is the Bavasi approach. If he were still running the show, I think without a doubt you'd see this team being huge players for Bay and Lackey.

Luckily for M's fans, Jack Z is rational. He realizes that committing multi-year deals at top dollar to big name free agents in their 30's is far more likely to result in long-term liabilities as opposed to long-term assets (hence his inability to budge on a multi-year deal for Branyan). I think last offseason demonstrates my faith that Z understands the best way to build a team is to make prudent moves that don't hinder the teams financial flexibility years down the road.

Seattle can contend in 2010 without splurging on the top free agents. This is a team that is coming off a season in which they led the MLB in ERA thanks to having the best defense in baseball. The club will likely struggle to score runs, but with potential breakouts from players such as Saunders and Adam Moore and a few prudent free agent signings panning out(such as Beltre/Nick Johnson/Delgado) the team will be in the playoff hunt.
Mayneiac
written by mayneiac, November 20, 2009
Bay = tooexpensive for safeco field, borderline liability in left., for that money you may as well get someone who can hit from the left side of the plate or plays mean defense, or both.
No way to Bay; Lackey not great value
written by rightwingrick, November 20, 2009
AS far as we've seen, Jack Z is a "value" investor, looking for more production than money paid. And he appears willing to take a risk to get hgh-value production. I don't think either Bay or Lackey fall into that category. Jack also places a high premium on defense, and Bay definitely does not fit there. SO....I think neither are likely to be signed (especially at the prices you speculate). For pitching, my money is on a Rich Harden or Ben Sheets signing, and maybe even Erik Bedard, although he won't be ready until June/July. All are big-upside guys, with likely lower costs, with risks associated.

In the outfield, Michael Saunders is looking better and better, and is only 23...good defense, good baseball instincts, runs, throws, hits for average and OBP, left-handed. I would not be surprised to see Jack do nothing in the OF except obtain a right-handed potential platoon guy with more pop in his bat (who can actually play defense). Saunders is a potential ROY candidate.

3B, 1B, and DH are the biggest questions. A lot could be solved by trading for Adrian Gonzales at 1B. SP Brandon Morrow, 1B Mike Carp, a proven relief pitcher, and top OF prospect Halman to San Diego?
...
written by Zach Sanders, November 20, 2009
I'll try to be as broad as I can here to answer everyone's concerns and respond.

1. We don't know how much Jack values defense. It's like the A's in the Moneyball era, where they "valued" OBP. They did it because it was the cheapest skill on the market. Same thing with Jack. He didn't have much to spend to improve the team last year, so a quick defensive upgrade made sense.

2. We don't know if Jack is only a value investor. We know he won't overpay, but he has never had money to throw around.

3. Don't think we'll sign Bay. Could, but doubtful.

4. Hinske isn't a key part of this deal, but he is actually good in the field, contrary to what you would think.

5. The point of this was to do it without trades. I can speculate on random trades all day long, but it didn't serve this piece to do that. If you want something like that, read Dave Cameron's plan on USSM.
...
written by uggs for sale, January 25, 2010
Concerned about the developments, UGG Classic Mini Boots
thanks Louzhu share information UGG Ultra boots!

Write comment

busy
 

Blogroll

General Baseball Fantasy Baseball Baseball Stats Minor Leagues Angels Astros Athletics Blue Jays Braves Brewers Cardinals Cubs Diamondbacks Dodgers Giants Indians Mariners Marlins Mets Nationals Orioles Padres Phillies Pirates Rangers Rays Red Sox Reds Rockies Royals Tigers Twins White Sox Yankees

About Bloguin

Bloguin is the revolutionary blog network specifically focused on helping bloggers get the most out of their websites. We're currently working on building a large network of online communities and hope to expand our blogging coverage to include a wide range of topics.

Advertisers

The Bloguin Network allows advertisers to promote their products and services to our ever-growing number of visitors. We offer both site-specific ad placements as well as the ability to run a network-wide campaign. If you're interested in working with Bloguin to meet your advertising needs, please contact us.

Bloggers Wanted

The Bloguin Network is always looking to expand. We're specifically looking for blogs in the sports, entertainment, and video games field, but are open to adding any type of quality site.. If you're a blogger and interested in joining our network, please fill out our application form.

The Bloguin Login

The Bloguin Login gives you full access to everything our network has to offer. Your name and password will work for each and every one of our sites. Signing up is simple, and will allow you to post in all our forums, create member blogs, and access other cool features! What are you waiting for? Create an Account!